There are some really terrible headlines in the papers at the moment about what Rowan Williams ‘said’ about the Christmas story:
“It’s all a Christmas tall story” The Times
“Three Wise Men are just a legend, says Archbishop of Canterbury” The Daily Mail
“Archbishop says nativity ‘a legend’” Daily Telegraph
I’m sure there’s plenty more around like this. The only problem is, none of it is true. Instead, one ‘journalist’ seems to have fed on another.
Ed: I will say that this is yet another example of irresponsible journalism.
Read it all here
24 December 2007 at 12:31 am
Don’t sit back and tell us what you think he said, which is like pulling your teeth—always convuluted double speech pandering to the left and right—read it for yourselves. I only wish someone would give me the URL to the entire transcript:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/20/nwise220.xml
“ABC We know his mother’s name was Mary, that’s one of the things all the gospels agree about, and the two gospels that tell the story have the story of the virgin birth and that’s something I’m committed to as part of what I’ve inherited.”
Again, he doesn’t say that he “believes” it because the Gospel says it is so. He is just “committed” to the virgin birth as part of what he has “inherited”. That is a big different people.
“SM ...they were Christian who don’t have a problem if you don’t believe in the Virgin birth;’ how important it is it to believe in that bit?”
“how important” “ABC I don’t want to set it as a kind of hurdle that people have to get over before they, you know, be signed up…”.
Well, is there any other parts of the Bible Williams would not set a hurdle?—maybe practicing homosexuality. I can guarantee you that Williams would never say that Gene Robinson is living in Sin-Period.
“ABC ...About thirty years ago I might have said I wasn’t too fussed about it - now I see it much more as dovetailing with the rest of what I believe about the story and yes.”
Okay people you have got thirty years on whenever to believe in the virgin birth, and other parts of the Bible. Well, Smith, I suppose that you can keep believing that homosexuality is not a sin, you have all the time in the World. The virgin birth, no big deal to sign up as a Christian-forgetaboutit.
“SM But would they have been there? [kings]
ABC Not with the shepherds, they wouldn’t. So if you’ve got shepherds on one side and three kings on the other, there’s a bit of conflation going on.”
How does Williams know. Does Williams have a crystal ball or a time machine? Were are talking about the King of Kings. Would it have been possible that Kings could have be humbled in the presence of the Almighty?
“SM And pulling back further - snow on the ground?
ABC Very unlikely I think; it can be pretty damn cold in Bethlehem at this time of the year, but we don’t know that it was this time of year because again the Gospels don’t tell us what time of year it was; Christmas is the time it is because it fitted very well with the winter festival.”
Very unlikely:
http://www.bibleplaces.com/jerusalemsnow.htm
“..it can be pretty damn cold… Must have learned profanity from watching the Simpsons on a daily basis.
Well if “the Gospels don’t tell us what time of year it was” then you don’t know what in the world your talking about. This Liberal Progressive is a joke!
“SM So if we’re pulling back even further then, is there a star above the place where the child is?
ABC Don’t know; I mean Matthew talks about the star rising, about the star standing still; we know stars don’t behave quite like that, that the wise men should have seen something which triggered a recognition of something significant was going on; some constellation, there are various scientific theories about what it might have been at around that time and they followed that trek; that makes sense to me.”
“...there are a lot of scientific theories…”
Goodness, your as bad as Guido Smith when if comes to Science. Guido Smith tries use Science to circumvent the Word, and Laws of God when it comes to homosexuality. Now, Guido Williams is offering up scienific theories(Secularist) to help solve the answer to what was the star of the East during the birth of Jesus. Maybe we could get the answer from the Simpons.
Please someone, get me the entire transcript.
Don’t let Chelmsford Anglican Mainstream tell you what he said, get the entire transcript and read it for yourselfs.
24 December 2007 at 12:23 pm
The virgin birth is connected to the Protevangelion, the first promise of salvation in Genesis 3. This is all of one piece.
Is there legendary material surrounding the Nativity of Jesus? Of course, as there is legendary material surrounding the immaculate conception of Buddha, the flood of Noah, etc. The point about legends is that they develop around real people and events, unlike myths.
24 December 2007 at 2:11 pm
Alice, I would have thought that with all your great learning (under Dr.Seitz, et al) you would have learned something about the difference between myth and legend. Look it up and just see if you can reconcile what the good Archbishop is really on about.
Anyway, enough of all this contention. It is the Eve of Christmas, for God’s sake! Enjoy the fact that ‘your redemptino draweth nigh’.