Call for Anglican bishops to attend Lambeth Conference as conservative clergyman draws up formula to avert schism over gay priests
by Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
The Anglican archbishop in charge of drawing up the document intended to reunite his warring Church said he believes that schism can still be averted in spite of divisions over the issue of homosexuals.
The Archbishop of the West Indies, the Most Rev Drexel Gomez, said that a new formula had been found that would allow the disciplining of errant churches while respecting the traditional autonomy of the 38 worldwide Anglican provinces. Urging all Anglican bishops to attend the Lambeth Conference this year, he said that it would be a “tremendous tragedy” if the Church fell apart.
A new document to be published this week would form “a basic way of holding each other accountable as a Communion”, he said. But he indicated that the Episcopal Church of the United States was unlikely to face discipline or any form of exclusion from the Anglican Communion as a result of consecrating Gene Robinson, who is openly gay, as Bishop of New Hampshire in 2003.
The first draft of the Covenant, known as the Nassau draft – after the location in which it was drawn up – was criticised by the liberal leadership of the Episcopal Church because it effectively allowed for the expulsion of provinces that stepped out of line. The new draft is expected to introduce greater autonomy for individual provinces to do what they believe to be right. The US church believes that. in pursuing gay rights for clergy, it is following a Gospel-led agenda similar to that which inspired the civil rights movement on race.
Archbishop Gomez, who has in the past been a fierce critic of the US Church, accusing it of “aggressive revisionist theology”, is heading the design group responsible for drawing up the details of the Covenant, intended to provide a doctrinal umbrella under which Anglicans can unite in spite of their differences over biblical interpretation such as the consecration of openly gay bishops.
The Archbishop of Sydney, the Most Rev Peter Jensen, and bishops from the strongly evangelical Sydney diocese in Australia have said that they intended to boycott the Lambeth Conference in Canterbury, a ten-yearly meeting of more than 800 bishops from the Anglican Church. It has no legislative authority but is designated an instrument of Communion as part of the worldwide Church.
The Archbishop of Nigeria, Dr Peter Akinola, has also indicated that he is unlikely to attend. Instead, he and the Archbishop of Sydney are planning an “alternative Lambeth”, the Global Anglican Future Conference, or Gafcon, in Jerusalem in June. Although intended to symbolise the seriousness with which conservatives regard the biblical roots of their faith, the decision to hold their conference in Israel has upset Anglican leaders there who have claimed that it will exacerbate the existing Anglican and interfaith tensions of the region.
Archbishop Gomez said that all Anglicans, including the conservatives, should attend the Lambeth Conference to have their voice at the table while Anglican identity is debated.
In a letter to the Primates of Nigeria, Kenya, Rwanda, Tanzania, Uganda and the Southern Cone of America, bishops led by the Bishop of Durham, Dr Tom Wright, the Church’s most senior evangelical theologian, said that they longed to share with them “in fellowship and in celebration at Lambeth”.
Although Bishop Robinson has not been invited by Dr Williams, he is expected to turn up for some, if not all, of the conference accompanied by his partner, Mark Andrews, with whom he is planning a civil ceremony to formalise their long-term partnership in the US this year.
Archbishop Gomez’s conciliatory voice is significant because, although not an evangelical, he is from the traditionally conservative Anglo-Catholic wing of the Church and is an authoritative voice within the conservative group of Global South churches. Last August he preached at the consecration of two conservative US bishops in the Anglican province of Kenya to serve evangelical parishes in the US. The consecrations went against the expressed desire of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, that provinces should not interfere in each other’s affairs.
Archbishop Gomez, who has led the drawing up of the second St Andrew’s draft, named after the headquarters of the Anglican Communion Office in London where the group met last week, said: “We are in a state, not quite of turmoil, but we need some healing and the need is for us to come together as a Communion. Our present structure within Anglicanism does not provide what we call a legislative or juridical body. We are in search of a mechanism that will help to draw us closer to one another.”
He said that most of the conservative churches of the Global South would welcome the text of the new draft of the Covenant. “If the Church signs up to the Covenant it is binding itself to live in a certain way as a member of the Anglican family.”
He added that he believed most of the controversies afflicting the Church could be settled and said that he opposed the idea of the Church breaking into a more federal structure, the model used by Lutherans in Europe.
05 February 2008 at 9:52 am
Getting divided of churches is not a good sign of unity. So, I think it will be prevented if the churches have a good leader and will not be found on any controversies.
05 February 2008 at 10:06 am
It is funny how the Church chooses to make “stands” on issues such as homosexuality, which for me, has nothing to do at all with morality. Homosexuals are no different from other humans, so the Church should have no biases against them and aid them too.
05 February 2008 at 2:09 pm
All I can say about this story is… Huh?
From reading the headline and first two paragraphs of this news article I actually thought that this was a serious story revealing that a workable plan was nearing completion which would put an end to all the madness that the Communion has been struggling with since 2003.
After all, didn’t the story lead with a clear and concise statement that a “… conservative clergyman draws up formula to avert schism over gay priests”? Didn’t it say that “… a new formula had been found that would allow the disciplining of errant churches…”? Could this be? Was there hope for the Communion after all? But, by the third paragraph of the story I found that I was traveling through another dimension—a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That’s a signpost up ahead: your next stop: the Twilight Zone!
You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension: a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You’re moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You’ve just crossed over into… the Twilight Zone.
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call “The Twilight Zone”.
Yes, the complete disconnect from reality began as I read that “… he [Archbishop Drexel Gomez] indicated that the Episcopal Church of the United States was unlikely to face discipline or any form of exclusion from the Anglican Communion as a result of consecrating Gene Robinson, who is openly gay, as Bishop of New Hampshire in 2003.”
Aaaaa? So I re-read the first three paragraphs again and asked myself one simple and obvious question. How does one get from “… a new formula had been found that would allow the disciplining of errant churches” to “… the Episcopal Church of the United States was unlikely to face discipline or any form of exclusion from the Anglican Communion” and draw the conclusion that this “new” formula was going to “avert schism over gay priests”? The only answer… The Twilight Zone!
Do do do do
Steve
05 February 2008 at 6:36 pm
It doesn’t seem to be a well written article does it? However if the revised covenant DOES have teeth .. that would be wonderful!
05 February 2008 at 8:07 pm
re:#3:
TOUCHE!!!
I SMELL THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY.
05 February 2008 at 8:11 pm
Here is a formula to avert schism over gay priests—
Homosexual priest is ‘out’
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02042008/news/regionalnews/priest_is_out_550023.htm
06 February 2008 at 2:43 am
An acceptable answer to 1 + 1 = should never be 6¾, unless of course you graduated from a US Public school, where it is not the correct answer that is important, but how you feel about your answer, so it shouldn’t surprise me that the revisionist “clergy” again show just how out of touch with reality they really are.
David W. Virtue (www.virtueonline.org) has posted an informative article today entitled “Liberal LA Clergy Calling Themselves Orthodox Anglicans Spin Lambeth, Rip Global South” which shows, in spite of Archbishop Gomez’s best efforts and hopes, why a “Covenant” (even reworked to appease the TEC) will never be acceptable to the revisionist.
Steve
06 February 2008 at 4:42 am
THE “CHURCH” AND THE “COMMUNION”
We are passing through a very difficult but most definite time of AC. As the article suggests there is no hope of what I call ‘repentance’ from the rigid TEC. As Ruth Gledhill observes The Archbishop of the West Indies, the Most Rev Drexel Gomez sees no hope towards the attitude of TEC, which raises a very valid question.
What is a Church? A silly question but very vital when we see the ABC trying very hard to stop GAFCON somehow. This gives another thrust to the on going question of asking what the AC was doing over the last several years. Yes those who were thinking according to the Scriptures decided to hold GAFCON and had refused to share the ‘cup’ as a reflection to Biblical knowledge.
Mt. 16: 17. “Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. (18)And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”
Jesus built the “Church” Himself on this Divine revelation and who so ever is part of this “Church” will respect and be faithful as Saint Paul (1 Cor. 3: 11) wrote, “For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.”
Saint Paul further testifies to the vision given to him by Lord Jesus before Agrippa saying, (Acts 26: 19) “So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven.”
Now then for those who believe in the Holy Scriptures also believe in the Divine revelation upon which the Church is established (outside which there is no Church even if people insist to call it church), Jesus as the head of the Church, the Word of God as its absolute constitution, and the Holy Spirit as the true interpreter. [And] above all for the believers it is a matter of life and death. Though very harsh but very straight and simple to understand, “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.” (Mt. 12: 30.)
THIS IS A DECIDING MOMENT FOR THE CHURCH, AND THE CHURCH ENGRAFTED IN CHRIST MUST THINK HONESTLY.
Remember, “Don’t you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough?” (1 Cor. 5: 6) was written in a similar situation.
The Church always faced “Fitna” [an Islamic term used for internal negative conflicts] but always lived on due to the solid stand of believers in all ages.
06 February 2008 at 9:43 am
Amen Bishop Inayat!
Steve
06 February 2008 at 1:32 pm
There is no Church apart from the divine revelation of Jesus Christ. That is true, dear Bishop. We can equally state as truth that no covenant can be made between those who believe and obey and those who do not.
07 February 2008 at 1:04 am
What more can one say than what has been stated by Bishop Inayat, Dr. Berry, Alice, Rosemary and Gary Morrow.
All who think otherwise than what these people say, should read Psalm 26!
My words are these. Some spell God, G O D; some spell God; J O B; and some have been so far detached from Him that they forget who God is but have made in their hearts and minds their own little golden calves, contrived icons or openly turned to the evil one.
Go figure.
Go GAFCON…... The ABC has been telling everyone for years where he stands, it is just that most of us - yes us - have had blinders on our eyes. How can a Church be held together when certain parts of it want to drift away from the XXXIX Articles of Religion; who want to drift away from the Holy Bible and who just want to drift…. talk about la la land.
07 February 2008 at 7:39 am
“DIFFERENT PEOPLE”
As far as I understand the message of the entire Bible, which God has conveyed in both the Testaments is a clear understanding of the relationship that He wants with His people.
The message is :-
“You are My people.”
“You are DIFFERENT PEOPLE.”
“You are people bound to me through a covenant.”
“You are people with a BOOK (guideline for life).
“You have to be faithful in the relationship.” True in thoughts, word and deeds.
Remember what Satan (Lucifer) had done against God. He just thought that he will set his throne above the throne of God and became a fallen angle (advisory).
“You have a reward and punishment for whatever you do.”
All those people had a very staunch religious system like the ANGLICAN COMMUNION now but did defiantly lack the realization and respect for the relationship. They were proud of their religion and system and of course the blood of Abraham.
The coming of Jesus at the peak of the religious system suggests that the Lord God wanted a deeper and more committed fellowship with the people He loved.
Therefore He added two more things :-
“Relationship sealed with the blood of His son Jesus Christ. The cost He paid for us.”
“The Holy Spirit to sustain us, enable us, guide us, reveal Gods message and guides us.”
STATUS QUO
In contrast to the demand of God the Father the part of the so-called church, which has injected false and anti-scriptural elements in the life of the institutional church want to maintain a “status quo” forgetting the Lord’s demand and instructions that, “unless you repent of your sins”, you are far away from His Kingdom.
Therefore brethren, let us break the status quo and clarify our understanding of the relationship with Him for others to follow.
08 February 2008 at 2:47 am
How do you save a divided church when you have the unbelievable comments coming from the Archbishop of Canterbury:
“The Archbishop of Canterbury has today said that the adoption of Islamic Sharia law in the UK is “unavoidable” and that it would help maintain social cohesion.”
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23436203-details/Adoption+of+Islamic+Sharia+law+in+Britain+is+‘unavoidable’,+says+Archbishop+of+Canterbury/article.do
The Archbishop should be saying that Muslims should be accepting Biblical Law and that accepting the Bible should be unavoidable.
The Socialist Liberals Panty-waste in the UK have surrendered to Muslims without a shot being fired.
08 February 2008 at 4:22 am
I wish that ABC should adopt Pakistan’s Nationality, before he concedes to the “Islamic Sharia law in UK, C o E and AC.”
Somebody please pass on my comment to him, with utmost regard.
09 February 2008 at 2:38 pm
Hi Gary and Bishop Ijaz.
Did you read the full transcript of the ABC’s interview with the BBC?
http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/1573
or his lecture?
http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/1575
If you had looked at it with an intellectual desire for religious harmony (and limited to the context of the UK), you may not have been so critical of him.
He did not call for Sharia law. His ideas were put in an intellectual manner to suggest that certain aspects of Sharia law are unavoidable. He may be questioned for expecting his words to be understood in an intellectual and genuine desire for religious harmony.
I read this in relation to ABC’s call for greater understanding between faiths and for putting forward opinions of biblical understanding - and not causing splits by pushing ideas of “truth” or “tradition”.
The ABC is one of very few courageous persons offering clear opinons of how we can attain Love, justice, religous harmony and peace - and against the present dangerous global trend of cultural division and creation of objects of hate and fear.
I believe it is all about Love - the greatest commandement.
Brian
09 February 2008 at 10:02 pm
Jenner, I think we have grown weary of understanding, diversity, multiculturalism, and continued call to dialoge until the homosexuals and the islamic fanatics have their perverted ideology made the norm-one step at a time.
Socialist Williams continues his advancement of perverted visions. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Archbishop of Canterbury seeks adoption of Islamic law:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=55810
‘Resign,’ clergy tell Archbishop of Canterbury:
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=55898
10 February 2008 at 2:21 am
Dr. Peter Toon offers this assessment of +Rowan Williams’ recent public statement about Sharia Law in the UK: “We can say things in the family circle that are not appropriately said at the Town Hall Meeting. The Rector can say things to the Church Vestry that are not appropriately part of the announcements on Sunday. The academic can propose ideas and policies in the Senior Common Room that are not suitable for a public lecture. A parent does not speak to the five year old child in the same way as to a teenager. Human beings have long been aware that not every thought, good or bad, in the mind requires expression in words in any company on any occasion. We are to discriminate between what to say, when to say it, how to say it, where to say it and to whom to say it.
In his tenure as Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan has from time to time made public statements in such areas as sexuality, international politics and American foreign policy, that are perfectly rational in themselves if delivered to friends in an Oxford Common Room; but, with an attentive media and the Web, are read by many in politically populist or common sense way. That is, any subtleties or sub-themes are missed and his statements with little context are sent into the world to be understood at one level only, the crudest one.
With this experience under his belt, it is amazing that Rowan went a few days ago before the legal establishment in England and argued that it was time to allow the use of Muslim Sharia Law within British Law, just as Orthodox Jewish Law is allowed in certain areas. All perfectly reasonable and reflecting an appreciation of the powerful traditions of Islam, but a position which is a minority position in Church and State. Further, the Archbishop was not speaking to friends inside Lambeth Palace but publicly, with the press there to listen and report. Further, he was speaking within a country where tensions between Muslim areas and neighborhoods around them are ripe for explosion. Then also he was speaking as the leader of the bishops of the Anglican Family, and many of them live in situations where they face all kinds of difficulties and problems caused by the local imposition of Sharia Law.
Rowan did not have to make this speech and say what he did. By this one speech, Rowan has lost much support in Britain, the Church of England, and the Anglican Communion of Churches. It appears that he is not able to discriminate between when to share his (complex) thoughts with his friends and when to share them with the world. This failure to discriminate would seen to disqualify him from high office. Regrettably, this business casts another cloud over the forthcoming Lambeth Conference, weakening his leadership and making it now very difficult to persuade the Nigerian Bishops to attend!
Oh how very, very sad! More chastisement of the Lord upon the Anglican Family, already in such pain and confusion.”
Sad indeed, but also clarifying of the need for Anglicans to heed the wise and discerning leaders that God has raised up “for such a time as this.”
10 February 2008 at 2:41 am
Alice said that Peter Toon said
“Sad indeed, but also clarifying of the need for Anglicans to heed the wise and discerning leaders that God has raised up “for such a time as this.”
Well now, that last line of Toon’s statement just about sums it all up…....Goodbye to ABC Williams, hello to a new ABC maybe even before Lambeth but all in all…..time for the rest of the Anglican Communion worldwide to wakeup and listen to Archbishops Venables, Akinola, Jensen, and others including those in CCP in N. America….
The time for smelling the roses so to speak is finished. I have a feeling GAFCON will be even more eventful than it was even thought it would be.
Unbelievable.
10 February 2008 at 2:50 am
Correction, Gerry! I made this remark: “Sad indeed, but also clarifying of the need for Anglicans to heed the wise and discerning leaders that God has raised up “for such a time as this.”
Note where the quotation from Dr. Toon ends, after the word “confusion”.
10 February 2008 at 2:57 am
Alice -
oops. correct you are…BUT still most accurate…no intention to steal your thunder Alice.
Blessings,
Gerry
10 February 2008 at 3:03 am
I don’t want to Dr. Toon to be misquoted or misrepresented. I consider him a friend and a mentor. He is a stalwart supporter of the Archbishop of Canterbury, so for Dr. Toon to write this, suggests that he is greatly disappointed.
10 February 2008 at 3:42 am
Alice - I agree.
I’ve been thinking and reading and the more I read about this fiasco over the Sharia Law and the ABC, the more it strikes me.
The ABC is an exceptionally intelligent man, much more intelligent than I. Peter Toon is an exceptionally intelligent man, much more intelligent than I. Most of the people on this site write with more insight than I.
All this being said, I wonder and that is all this is “wonder”....perhaps the Archbishop of Canterbury has finally concluded that his tenure as ABC is over. Perhaps he has decided that he doesn’t even want to be the ABC for Lambeth.
This is a brilliant way to get out from under the shower of arrows that are coming at him from all corners of the world.
Dr. Toon did say:
“This failure to discriminate would seem to disqualify him from high office. Regrettably, this business casts another cloud over the forthcoming Lambeth Conference, weakening his leadership and making it now very difficult to persuade the Nigerian Bishops to attend!”
Perhaps +++Dr. Rowan Williams has just received the hidden advice from many including what is stated by Dr. Toon…..“This failure to discriminate would seem to disqualify him from high office.
The cries of disdain coming out of Africa over the Archbishop’s statements are only cementing GAFCON and distancing the Orthodox Anglicans from thinking about possibly attending Lambeth.
It is unbelievable that even +++Rowan could be that indiscriminate to carry on the dialogue about Sharia law to the level that he has taken it. I think He knows exactly what he is doing, I think he knows exactly what the outcome will be and I think he is very likely looking forward to an early retirement. He should!
11 February 2008 at 7:32 pm
Bishop: Christians don’t go to heaven.
Church of England Anglican challenges widespread belief, says believers asleep until God returns:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56071
Please, don’t try to keep this Church together.
12 February 2008 at 4:35 am
Regarding comment # 15 and the whole debate about ABC
I received the following e-mail today regarding my comment # 14: -
“With utmost regard”? Really, you a bishop and indulging in such patently hypocritical speech? May God forgive you your disloyalty to your Primus inter pares.
Tell me bishop: are you still on active service, or are you sitting on the side-lines offering your own brand of theological ‘wisdom’? I think your efforts to undermine the Church of God have gone far enough. Why not repent this Lenten-tide, so that you might have peace with God before the first Mass of Easter?
Are you hoping for preferment in the new Church of the global South? I hope your wish is granted”
My comments
Dear brother, (brothers and sisters)
I do not write the name of the writer but I want to tell him and the rest of the world that I do not worship any organization, which does not glorify my Lord and I do not seek any favor from any other, as I am more than content in my faith and position.
It seems to me as a personal target for my faith and I bless the brother for the remarks. I wish my brother you had posted it on the page.
Regarding Brian Jenner’s comment # 15, I am sure I know what explanation you are trying to give. It would be all very acceptable to me if the ABC was holding a political office in the British Government (maybe he thinks he is due to his selection for the post by the former PM of GB). I take him as a symbol of the “Church” and in this case CoE and AC who represents millions of Christians all over the World.
I am living in Pakistan and know the Islamic world better than any western, and I again invite him to take the Nationality of Pakistan along with all those who support him on his statement about “Sharia law in UK” to come over to live here for a better and deeper understanding of Islamization in these days. Or else start compiling the data of the tool of the dead bodies due to the suicide bombs in Pakistan. I may not be able to analyze further but would suggest you all to look at 1 John 4: 1-3 to find out what we are supposed to do as believers.
First his stand and support on the issue of homosexuality and now over his recent statement is enough ground for me to identify with all those who want him to leave the office immediately for an honest believer and defender of faith.
God bless you all and give (every one) His Divine wisdom for the sake of His Glory and the living Church.
12 February 2008 at 9:43 am
Hi,
This is my second post.
I was a little worried when I noticed that I was not able to post for a while, but my ability to post seems to have returned.
I thaught that this sight was for theological reasoning, but it is not really like that is it? We may have strongly held beliefs but it does not give a good impression of our cause when we degenerate into hurtful invective, based on our priamal fears. What is wrong with socialism anyway? and what has it to do with reasoned theological discussion?
I live in a multifaith country where religious bigotry is against the law, and certain elements of Sharia law run in paralel with the law of the state. It works well, as there is genuine desire by the government for tolerance and harmony. That suits the country that I live in but may not be the best for the UK, with hate against Islam preached in the British tabloids and religious extremism of the Times.
I can understand Bishop Ijaz’s feelings about Pakistan. I am sure that ABC did not call for assistance to Dangerous Islamic Fundamentalists and was talking about the situation in Britain.
Love means giving something away in order to achieve harmony, it means respect, understanding, diversity, multiculturalism, and continued call to dialoge. To be weary of this means that we have given up on our Lord’s commandment.
Brian
12 February 2008 at 10:24 am
Bishop Ijaz Inayat spoke of and showed the email that he received. The Bishop was very charitable in not naming the writer of the email that he posted.
Dear Bishop, there are many on this site who do not need to see the e.mail writer’s name and we know who it is anyway based on certain use of words and writing style…..
This person has sunk not only to personal emails to you, but to myself also, accusing me of wrongful things but that is alright, he has been forgiven AGAIN.
He tells me that he has decided not to post here anymore [he got very tired of being edited]. I have interacted by email with him over the last three days also…. I guess he just feels he must keep on trying to convert us to the liberal twisted thinking that he has practised. As of this time, the “father” has been blocked by my computer.
Brian said:
QUOTE “I can understand Bishop Ijaz’s feelings about Pakistan. I am sure that ABC did not call for assistance to Dangerous Islamic Fundamentalists and was talking about the situation in Britain.” UNQUOTE
Brian, I appreciate your comments, however, we must be cognizant of the fact that the Archbishop of Canterbury is a World Figure, not just a UK figure and his words impact worldwide. Not only that, the Islamic fundamentalists are very dangerous in Britain as we have witnessed over the past several years. I cannot agree with you Brian.
12 February 2008 at 7:12 pm
RE: #25
Just wait until ‘Sharia law’ is your Government.
13 February 2008 at 5:50 am
Dear readers, (Brothers and sisters)
Please read more about it
http://www.compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=lead&lang=en&length=long&idelement;=&backpage;=&critere;=&countryname;=&rowcur;=
13 February 2008 at 11:09 am
Thanks, Bishop Inayat. I read this report from Compass and it has renewed by commitment to pray and fast, especially for Christian girls of marriage age and for pastors of churches.
If only Christians in the USA, Western Europe, and Canada would open their eyes! The monster is growing while we are side-tracked with the gay issue.
14 February 2008 at 8:51 am
Alice and Bishop Ijaz Inayat:
It is interesting that at a prayer meeting I attended last evening the topic of the Monster arose and it was agreed that we are being called into prayer against the activities that are rising against Christians worldwide.
We must also continue to fight against the gay issue in the manner that has risen, that being realigning the faithful of the Anglican Communion into something that will not be in communion with those that are choosing to walk outside of God’s Word.
Thank You Bishop for providing the URL that you gave us in Post # 28 above. Bless You.
14 February 2008 at 9:07 pm
Hi Alice and Gerry,
What is the “Monster”? I am new in these circles.
Thanks,
Brian
14 February 2008 at 10:19 pm
Brian ~ Go to post #28 and click on the URL (red) and start reading…
14 February 2008 at 10:40 pm
“Many Anglicans of the Global South have found that sharia law, even if initially implemented in part, will lead to atrocities as the law expands,” Webb said. “Archbishop Ben Kwashi of the Diocese of Jos in Nigeria, recounting what has happened in several northern Nigeria states, recently said in a BBC News interview that any partial implementation of sharia law inevitably will lead to complete sharia law.”
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56301
15 February 2008 at 12:20 am
A church divided—a church within a church—the American and European anglican churches have become just another cult similiar to the church of the Jehovah’s Witnesses—alcholism, homosexuality, immoral practices, false doctrines, revisions of doctrine, etc:
*** Watchtower 1986 January 1 p.13 Days Like “the Days of Noah” ***
12 Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah’s organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting. It is to be noted, also, that during the past year, 36,638 individuals had to be disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation, the greater number of them for practicing immorality.
15 February 2008 at 4:26 am
SAVING THE DIVIDED CHURCH OR THE SAVED CHURCH?
Going back to the attempt of The Archbishop of the West Indies, the Most Rev Drexel Gomez to save the divide Church raises yet another vital question.
Can he save the Church (along with the help of others), or what Church is he trying to save?
The Church can only be saved if it reaches the status where the gates of Hayes cannot over come it. The true (saved) Church is only established by the Lord Himself, Mt. 16: 18. based on the revelation from God the Father.
The other Church or Churches can only be saved by Jesus and for that the only source are the Canonical Scriptures.
In this hostile world compromise with the forces of the enemy could be part of world politics or another strategy by Satan against the saints but cannot be accomplishment of the Lords “Mission” or add glory to it. The leadership is supposed to warn the believers of the dangers that may target the basic faith rather than open doors, which allow acceptance of alien ideologies, which will eventually damage the basic fabric of “Faith” by which we shall live.
15 February 2008 at 5:08 am
REPRODUCED
THE TRUE CHURCH
By Bishop J. C. Ryle
(1816-1900) Liverpool, England
I want you to belong to the one true Church: to the Church outside of which there is no salvation.
1. The one true Church IS COMPOSED OF ALL BELIEVERS IN THE LORD JESUS. It is made up of all God’s elect — of all converted men and women — of all true Christians. In whomsoever we can discern the election of God the Father, the sprinkling of the blood of God the Son, the sanctifying work of God the Spirit, in that person we see a member of Christ’s true Church.
2. It is a Church OF WHICH ALL THE MEMBERS HAVE THE SAME MARKS. They are all born again of the Spirit; they all possess “repentance towards God, faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ,” and holiness of life and conversation. They all hate sin, and they all love Christ. ... They are all led by one Spirit; they all build upon one foundation; they all draw their religion from one single book — that is the Bible. They are all joined to one great center — that is Jesus Christ. They all even now can say with one heart, “Hallelujah;” and they can all respond with one heart and voice, Amen and Amen.
3. It is a Church WHICH IS DEPENDENT UPON NO MINISTERS UPON EARTH, however much it values those who preach the gospel to its members. The life of its members does not hang upon Church-membership, or baptism, or the Lord’s Supper — although they highly value these things when they are to be had. But it has only one Great Head — one Shepherd, one chief Bishop — and that is Jesus Christ. He alone, By His Spirit, admits the members of this Church, though ministers may show the door. Till He opens the door no man on earth can open it — neither bishops, nor presbyters, nor convocations, nor synods. Once let a man repent and believe the gospel, and that moment he becomes a member of this Church. Like the penitent thief, he may have no opportunity of being baptized; but he has that which is far better than any water-baptism — the baptism of the Spirit. He may not be able to receive the bread and wine in the Lord’s Supper;but he eats Christ’s body and drinks Christ’s blood by faith every day he lives, and no minister on earth can prevent him. He may be ex-communicated by ordained men, and cut off from the outward ordinances of the professing Church; but all the ordained men in the world cannot shut him out of the true Church. It is a Church whose existence does not depend on forms, ceremonies, cathedrals, churches, chapels, pulpits, fonts, vestments, organs, endowments, money, kings, governments, magistrates or any act of favor whatsoever from the hand of man. It has often lived on and continued when all these things have been taken from it. It has often been driven into the wilderness, or into dens and caves of the earth, by those who ought to have been its friends. Its existence depends on nothing but the presence of Christ and His Spirit; and they being ever with it, the Church cannot die.
4. This is the Church TO WHICH THE SCRIPTURAL TITLES OF PRESENT HONOR AND PRIVILEGE, AND THE PROMISES OF FUTURE GLORY ESPECIALLY BELONG; this is the Body of Christ; this is the flock of Christ; this is the household of faith and the family of God; this is God’s building, God’s foundation, and the temple of the Holy Ghost. This is the Church of the first-born, whose names are written in heaven; this is the royal priesthood, the chosen generation, the peculiar people, the purchased possession, the habitation of God, the light of the world, the salt and the wheat of the earth; this is the “Holy Catholic Church” of the Apostles’ Creed; this is the “One Catholic and Apostolic Church” of the Nicene Creed; this is that Church to which the Lord Jesus promises “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it,” and to which He says, “I am with you always, even unto the end of the world”(Matt.16:18; 28:2).
5. This is the only Church WHICH POSSESSES TRUE UNITY. Its members are entirely agreed on all the weightier matters of religion, for they are all taught by one Spirit. About God, and Christ, and the Spirit, and sin, and their own hearts, and faith, and repentance, and necessity of holiness, and the value of the Bible, and the importance of prayer, and the resurrection, and judgment to come — about all these points they are of one mind. Take three or four of them, strangers to one another, from the remotest corners of the earth; examine them separately on these points: you will find them all one judgment.
6. This is the only Church WHICH POSSESSES TRUE SANCTITY. Its members are all holy. They are not merely holy by profession, holy in name, and holy in the judgment of charity; they are all holy in act, and deed, and reality, and life, and truth. They are all more or less conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. No unholy man belongs to this Church.
7. This is the only Church WHICH IS TRULY CATHOLIC. It is not the Church of any one nation or people; its members are to be found in every part of the world where the gospel is received and believed. It is not confined within the limits of any one country, or pent up within the pale of any particular forms of outward government. In it there is no difference between Jew and Greek, black man and white ... but faith in Christ is all. Its members will be gathered from north, and south, and east, and west, and will be of every name and tongue — but all one in Jesus Christ.
8. This is the only Church WHICH IS TRULY APOSTOLIC. It is built on the foundation laid by the Apostles, and holds the doctrines which they preached. The two grand objects at which its members aim are apostolic faith and apostolic practice; and they consider the man who talks of following the Apostles without possessing these two things to be no better than sounding brass and tinkling cymbal.
9. This is the only Church WHICH IS CERTAIN TO ENDURE UNTO THE END. Nothing can altogether overthrow and destroy it. Its members may be persecuted, oppressed, imprisoned, beaten, beheaded, burned; but the true Chruch is never altogether extinguished; it rises again from its afflictions; it lives on through fire and water. When crushed in one land it springs up in another. The Pharaohs, the Herods, the Neros, the Bloody Marys, have labored in vain to put down this Church; they slay their thousands, and then pass away and go to their own place. The true Church outlives them all, and sees them buried each in his turn. It is an anvil that has broken many a hammer in this world, and will break many a hammer still; it is a bush which is often burning, and yet it’s not consumed.
10. This is the only Church OF WHICH NO ONE MEMBER CAN PERISH. Once enrolled in the lists of this Church, sinners are safe for eternity; they are never cast away. The election of God the Father, the continual intercession of God the Son, the daily renewing and sanctifying power of God the Holy Ghost, surround and fence them in like a garden enclosed. Not one bone of Christ’s mystical Body shall ever be broken; not one lamb of Christ’s flock shall ever be plucked out of His hand.
11. This is the Church WHICH DOES THE WORK OF CHRIST UPON EARTH. Its members are a little flock, and few in numbers, compared with the children of the world; one or two here, and two or three there — a few in this place and few in that. But these are they who shake the universe; these are they who change the fortunes of kingdoms by their prayers; these are they who are the active workers for spreading the knowledge of pure religion and undefiled; these are the life-blood of a country, the shield, the defence, the stay, and the support of any nation to which they belong.
12. This is the Church WHICH SHALL BE TRULY GLORIOUS AT THE END. When all earthly glory is passsed away then shall this Church be presented without spot before God the Father’s throne. Thrones, principalities, and powers upon earth shall come to nothing; dignities, and offices, and endowments shall all pass away; but the Church of the first-born shall shine as the stars at the last, and be presented with joy before the Father’s throne, in the day of Christ’s appearing. When the Lord’s jewels are made up, and manifestation of the sons of God takes place, Episcopacy, and Presbyterianism, and Congregationalism will not be mentioned; one Church only will be named, and that is the Church of the elect.
13. Reader, THIS IS THE TRUE CHURCH TO WHICH A MAN MUST BELONG, IF HE WOULD BE SAVED. Till you belong to this, you are nothing better than a lost soul. You may have the form, the husk, the skin, and the shell of religion, but you have not got the substance and the life. Yes, you may have countless outward privileges; you may enjoy great light, and knowledge — but if you do not belong to the Body of Christ, your light and knowledge and privileges will not save your soul.
J.C. Ryle
Posted by Steven Berry on 02/10 at 11:49 PM
16 February 2008 at 9:38 pm
Bring the Monster to the Bible:
Can Quran be used to prove Jesus is the Christ?
‘God Loves You, My Muslim Friend’ uses parallel passages in Bible to speak to Islam.
http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=2281
18 February 2008 at 3:51 am
If you have questions about preaching or talking to Muslims you can e-mail, .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Regarding comment 37 read the following too
http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=314011
22 February 2008 at 8:41 pm
A church divided—[church’s] within a church—Gnosticism, Hinduism, etc:
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/10289/