Lambeth summit over Communion

Source: Church of England Newspaper

A ‘series of consultations’ to head off ‘schism’ in the Anglican Communion are taking place at Lambeth Palace, as the Archbishop of Canterbury considers potential fall-out from the American General Convention in June. On Monday the Archbishop met with senior bishops and representatives of mission agencies, Anglican Mainstream and the Anglican Consultative Council to discuss a range of scenarios for dealing with the crisis.

It is believed that the Archbishop is taking advice on whether he has powers to ‘disinvite’ bishops to the Lambeth Conference in 2008 or whether a series of resolutions expected to be agreed by the General Convention in June may be enough to halt the fragmentation of the Communion. At Monday’s meeting, a gathering of bishops and Archbishops including Canterbury and York, Winchester, Bristol, Durham, Exeter, Manchester, and Norwich, heard presentations from Tim Dakin of CMS, Michael Doe of USPG, Gregory Cameron and Kenneth Kearon of the Anglican Consultative Council and Chris Sugden of Anglican Mainstream.

Dr Sugden said this week, prior to his own presentation, that traditionalists and evangelicals across the world were expecting Dr Williams to follow the Windsor Report. “We’re very concerned that a fudge isn’t good enough. What we’re looking for is repentance and the rescinding of decisions of [the US] General Convention 2003.” He added: “The fabric of the Communion is torn, not that it will be torn, it is torn.” Dr Sugden’s analysis compares with an increasingly pessimistic tone from the Archbishop of Canterbury in interviews during recent months. At Spring Harvest recently he told evangelicals that he was not optimistic about the future of the Communion, but added that he was not without ‘hope’. According to The Times in March, the letter of invitation to this week’s Lambeth meeting said that the roundtable discussion concerns the ‘next critical months’ in the life of the Anglican Communion. “This is too important a set of issues to allow events to overtake us,” Lambeth’s chief of staff, Chris Smith, said in the letter.

Dr Williams has also held a meeting with the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church of the USA, who last week invited the Guardian’s religion correspondent, Stephen Bates to interview him. In the resulting article at the weekend, Bishop Griswold issued a thinly veiled warning to the Diocese of California not to elect one of the three practising homosexual candidates for its bishopric next weekend. “The diocese needs to respect the sensibilities of the larger communion. It will note what is going on in the life of the church and make a careful and wise decision,” he said. The American House of Bishops, he suggested, could withhold their consent if California elects one of the homosexual candidates. Bishop Griswold said of his meeting with Dr Williams: “We both live under stresses and strains, and it is important not to have second-hand communication, to meet face-to-face. It enables me to hear his concerns and he can hear some from me.” He said he was unrepentant about his role in Bishop Gene Robinson’s election. “To have abstained would have been meaningless and, assent to his election having been given, it would have been very odd for me not to attend his consecration.”

A Lambeth Palace spokesman said that Monday’s meeting was “one of a series of consultations in relationship to the current situation in the Anglican Church.”


    Comments & Responses

  1. Why bother trying to head off schism. Surely both sides would be happier as separate denominations, both in USA and also everywhere else, eg Australia, Brazil, South Africa etc etc

    Then each side could put their energy into actively pursuing their own priorities.

    Posted by  on  05/04  at  12:40 AM

  2. Because. William, only in the US it seems do churches lack the will and power to discipline the heretics and apostates in their midst.

    In churches in the Global South, heretics like Spong, Griswold, and their fellow travellers are simply thrown out of the Church as Christ commands!  (and ideally, like John and Robinson, simply imprisoned).  So there is no need of Schism where there is True Christian Love and Discipline. 

    Please, we beg you, do not once again export your American arrogance, intransigence, independence, and heresy to the rest of the world.

    Posted by  on  05/04  at  04:45 AM

  3. Sadly, most of the Western churches (USA, Canada, Scotland, Ireland, some of Australia...) are affected to some degree by this problem, as well as some Western-influenced Anglican provinces (Mexico, some of Brazil, South Africa...).

    I wish that they were not! There is a marked lack of any discipline here in England as well.

    The USA has gone the furthest, but others are following them. Thankfully the Global South is standing up for the faith delivered to the saints, and in all the above places there are churches and individuals who support their stand, such as myself.

    Posted by  on  05/04  at  07:03 PM

  4. There are many, like myself, in the USA that feel the same William. Some of the liberal Bishops have gone on a rampage to quell the orthadox here. Check out the story on the Anglican Communion Network site http://www.acn-us.org .

    We feel that the ECUSA is headed for disaster. The liberal Bishops supporting Robenson are getting real nasty about the opposing views of a lot of the lay and clergy here.

    Standing with God and the Global South.

    Marlin

    Posted by  on  05/05  at  08:02 PM

  5. From the above article - Dr Sugden’s analysis:

    “What we’re looking for is repentance and the rescinding of decisions of [the US] General Convention 2003.” He added: “The fabric of the Communion is torn, not that it will be torn, it is torn.”

    In all of these discussions, I have never heard an argument defining the true value or real meaning of an “Anglican Communion”.  What is the value of such a ‘communion’ to the ‘Church of the Global South’ or the ‘Church of the West”?

    ECUSA is a member of the World Council of Churches and that body of churches has no authority to govern our church. We are in full ‘communion’ with the Evangelical Lutheran Chruch of America and they have no authority to govern us.

    William said it best when he wrote: “Then each side could put their energy into actively pursuing their own priorities.” To much money, time and energy is being devoted to a conflict that can not be resolved. There are ‘real’ problems to face in this increasingly dangerous world. Let us all go forward in peace to do the work of Christ in our own neighborhoods. Regional, national and local organizations can deal best with local affairs.

    I do not want to live in a world defined in this manner by Sinner.

    “In churches in the Global South, heretics like Spong, Griswold, and their fellow travellers are simply thrown out of the Church as Christ commands!  (and ideally, like John and Robinson, simply imprisoned).  So there is no need of Schism where there is True Christian Love and Discipline.  “

    That is to me a vision of hell and not any part of an ‘Anglican Communion’ a true Christian would accept. Perhaps the ‘Church of the West’ discovered, in the centuries of internal religious violence that we practiced, that violence is not the path to Christ. It may well be time for the ‘Church of the Global South’ to discover this truth by itself.

    Posted by  on  05/12  at  09:45 PM

  6. Sadly, ECUSA still puts far too much time and effort into fighting those it considers opponents. ECUSA has much to learn about avoiding internal conflict. ECUSA fails even to include everyone, despite making this claim only too often. I can only think that words are more important than actions to them.

    The sooner ECUSA is fully out of the Anglican Communion the better. If you do not want to respect us, why bother claiming to be part of us.

    Posted by  on  05/12  at  11:28 PM

  7. There are many in the ECUSA who honor and respect the Anglican Communion and wish to remain a part of it William. Not all of us are like mccabe.

    The lay orginazation LEAC has a petition to bring presentment charges against Robenson and all who participated in his concration.
    The website is http://www.layepiscopal.org .

    The only thing the revisionists look at is their own agenda and the apostate church they invision, no matter how many souls they condem in the process. We orthodox episcopalians want and long for a return to the traditions and values that are expressed in the 1928 BCP and the return to scriptural integrity that has been abandoned.

    Thankfully the Anglican Communion Network is in place and ready if the subversive elements are sucessful next month.

    Posted by  on  05/13  at  01:14 AM

  8. William,

    It is not your church that is being attacked by ECUSA. ECUSA is not asking your church to justify its’ practice, forms or teachings to us. ECUSA has always been an independant church like every other member of the imaginary Anglican Communion.

    What will happen when Her Majesty Elizabeth II’s government orders The Church of England to allow gay marriages or openly gay clergy? What will be the role of her appointed and government paid civil servent The Archbishop of Canterbury in the Anglican Communion at that time? Since Her Majesty Elizabeth II, By the Grace of God, is the true and only Head of the Church of England we should actually have her host Lambeth Council. Since she is the true Head of the Church of England and the Archbishop of Canterbury is only her appointed government offical in charge of church affairs. All of the Bishops in the Church of England are in fact government appointed officials. Are you prepared to break all that binds you to the Church of England since their bishops are only government civil servants? The Churches of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland are after all, only an organs of the British government. They are not unlike the Royal Navy in that respect.

    There still is no anwer to the question of what is the value in this imaginary communion to ECUSA or your own national church?

    Posted by  on  05/13  at  04:20 AM

  9. mccabe

    Can you explane then Bishop Chaine’s ragging on Archbisjop Akniola’s backing of Nigeria’s law against homosexiality? You don’t consider that interfearence? No, you probably don’t.

    The Queen doesn’t pass the laws. That is Parlement. Do you know the religeous values of the Queen? I don’t think you know that either since you seem to put a midevil concept to the powers of the crown.

    Also the churches of Scotland and Ireland are Autonamous like the ECUSA. Ireland has it’s own primate who has just announced his retirement.

    The communion with the world church is hardly imaginary, accept maybe in your mind, and the fact is there is a large part of the ECUSA that wants it to remain so. If your vision becomes fact then the ECUSA will walk apart. However it will be a great deal smaller because a large part will remain with the true Anglican traditions and doctrine.

    Posted by  on  05/13  at  05:20 AM

  10. Marlin, a comment on policy by a outside Biship is different the going into another country and attempting to take control of that nations churches and its’ dioceses. Wake up!

    In the Unitied Kingdom the Queen is still the offical head of state and the offical Head of the Church of England. You are right that Parliament governs in fact. However, it is all done in the name of the Crown. The Archbishop of Canterbury as a government officer is part of that government. What will you do when the Parliament orders the Church of England to allow gay marriage and ordain gay clergy? The established Church of England is part of the government of the Unitied Kingdom. If Parliament says you must have female bishops, what will happen?

    You are so incorrect on your understanding of the actual power of the reactionary minority presently causing chaos in ECUSA. They will be attended to in good time by the majority of the church in ECUSA. They have been defeated for 50 years. ‘Communion’ used by you so often implies another word: coercion.

    We do walk alone. So what? What’s new? Why do you care? ECUSA has been pushed outside of something that is only a voluntary fraternal association of churches. No loss to us.

    Posted by  on  05/13  at  07:28 AM

  11. mccabe

    “Marlin, a comment on policy by a outside Biship is different the going into another country and attempting to take control of that nations churches and its’ dioceses. Wake up!”

    I think if you look close that you will find that Arcbishop Akinola was invited and that he visited the churches that had already broken from the ecusa. He wasn’t attempting to take controll. That’s just revisionist nonsence your spouting.

    “You are so incorrect on your understanding of the actual power of the reactionary minority presently causing chaos in ECUSA. They will be attended to in good time by the majority of the church in ECUSA. They have been defeated for 50 years. ‘Communion’ used by you so often implies another word: coercion.”

    You just continue in your fantasy world. It gives me a good laugh. If the ECUSA decides to “Walk Alone” then the split that will happen will leave the ECUSA a destitute and failing remnant and the true Anglican doctrine and traditions will go on within the ACN. Then the ECUSA will truly be the “Gay Church”.

    Posted by  on  05/13  at  09:42 AM

  12. Marlin I pray for you.

    From The Book of Common Prayer ECUSA:

    “Almighty God, we thank you that by the death and
    resurrection of your Son Jesus Christ you have overcome sin and brought us to yourself, and that by the sealing of your Holy Spirit you have bound us to your service. Renew in your servant Marlin the covenant you made with him at his Baptism. Send him forth in the power of that Spirit to
    perform the service you set before him; through Jesus Christ your Son our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever.  Amen.”

    ACN is as welcome to expand as any other new church starting in America. The Episcopal Church will rejoice in the growth of yet another Christian church working to bring peace and healing to a sick and broken world. We remaining in the The Episcopal Church will also rejoice that we are free from the opportunistic plague of disruptive elements now found in our congregation.

    Posted by  on  05/13  at  12:42 PM

  13. McCabe, I was baptised in 1945 the year of my birth. The “Baptismal Covenant” you speak of didn’t exist then, being a part of the 1979 BCP. There is one part of it I would not accept because it is being misused to allow unrepentant sinners full participation in the church and acceptance in the clergy.

    I however appreciate you prayer for me as I am doing all I can, even though my efforts are small, to bring my lifelong church back to the traditions, doctrine, and the following of scripture it once knew. The saving of many souls of those being led astray by false doctrine is prime in my efforts.

    You, by your words know nothing of the ACN. It has been established to bring a unity to all the parishes that could no longer accept the apostacy of the ECUSA, and to unite all the divergent Anglican churches in North America in communion with each other and the Anglican Communion. This was done at the request of the Archbishop of Canterbury. Go to the site and educate yourself before puting out Louie Crew’s type of nonsence.

    Posted by  on  05/13  at  06:48 PM

  14. I was also raised with teh 1929 BCP and will point out that the traditional Forms are contained in the 1979 Version. There are churches that use Rite One in the early service. You may want to find one in your area.

    From Prayers for the People: Rite One 1979 BCP.

    “Almighty and everliving God, who in thy holy Word hast taught us to make prayers, and supplications, and to give thanks for all men: Receive these our prayers which we offer unto thy divine Majesty, beseeching thee to inspire continually the Universal Church with the spirit of truth,
    unity, and concord; and grant that all those who do confess thy holy Name may agree in the truth of thy holy Word, and live in unity and godly love.”

    I would emphasize: “...beseeching thee to inspire continually the Universal Church with the spirit of truth, unity, and concord...”

    or

    “We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord whose property is always to have mercy.”

    Where is our mercy towards one another?

    Posted by  on  05/14  at  01:33 AM

  15. McCabe

    In my home church those who hold to the older values are religated to the 8 am service and Rite-1. Without music accept on special occasions.

    I have been going over the 1979 BCP and have found that even the Rite-1 forms have been modified or changed. My research is ongoing. How do you explain this modification in the Eucharist service between the 1928 BCP and the 1779 BCP.

    Rite-1 Eucharist Service:

    Ye who do truly and earnestly repent you of your sins, and are in love and charity with your neighbors, and intend to lead a new life, following the commandments of God, andwalking from henceforth in his holy ways: Draw near with faith, and make your humble confession to Almighty God,devoutly kneeling.

    1928 BCP Communion Service:

    Ye who do truly and earnestly repent you of your sins, and are in love and charity with your neighbours, and intend to lead a new life, following the commandments of God, and walking from henceforth in his holy ways;[[Draw near with faith, and take this holy Sacrament to your comfort;]] and make your humble confession to Almighty God, devoutly kneeling.

    The double bracketed line has been removed from the Rite-1 rendition, And the whole thing has been entirely eliminated from the Rite-II Eucharist service. This completely alters the meaning and the intent of this call. It also allowes those who are unprepaired or in ignorance to take the sacrement, to their own condemnation. (re. article XXIX of the 39 Articles)

    This is not a good thing to remove, but it is one example of what is wrong with the 1979 BCP.

    1928 differences in brackets - replaced by in parentheses:

    “Almighty and everliving God, who [by thy Holy Apostle]-(in thy holy Word) hast taught us to make prayers, and supplications, and to give thanks for all men: [removed: We humbly beseech thee most mercifully to recieve our (alms and) oblations, and to] Receive these our prayers which we offer unto thy divine Majesty, beseeching thee to inspire continually the Universal Church with the spirit of truth,
    unity, and concord; and grant that all those who do confess thy holy Name may agree in the truth of thy holy Word, and live in unity and godly love.”

    Why ?


    “We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord whose property is always to have mercy.” Grant us therefore,gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ,and to drink his blood,[[that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood,]] that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. Amen.

    Why? Why is all this renmoved. What is it that their trying to cover up, their hidden agenda. To equate the Rite-1 servise as being like the 1928 BCP services is ok untill you really start digging. The false doctrine they are trying to push won’t get by me. I believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth......................
    Not the apostate drival of the false prophets.

    Posted by  on  05/14  at  03:27 AM

  16. Marlin, The BCP has been changed every 25-50 since the Episcopal Church was founded. The sun still rose in the heavens after each change. When you and your companions finish you critcal examination of the BCP , perhaps, you may want to move on to a really important question that the church has been seeking an answer for since the Middle Ages. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

    Posted by  on  05/14  at  10:48 AM

  17. McCabe

    “The BCP has been changed every 25-50 since the Episcopal Church was founded.”

    The changes you speak of were minor. The 1979 BCP is a complete rewrite. I has very little in common with the 1928 BCP or those that went before. The services, by having 2 rites split the church into 2 camps and alterted, as showen, the services to allow the secularization of the church. It also added alot of “bells and smells” to cover what was being done. the pew bible and the hymn book were altered in the same matter. Read some of Rev. Dr. Peter Toons recient publications for the truth.

    Posted by  on  05/14  at  05:25 PM
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